Susan Friedmann [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books. Today, my special guest is Kathy Farah. Kathy is a seasoned expert in email marketing strategy and implementation. She uses her smart strategies to build strong connections between businesses and their subscribers, making it easier to keep audiences interested and engaged. Online entrepreneurs hire her to reclaim their time and grow revenue Hi, Susan
Kathy Farah [00:00:55]:
Hi, Susan. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited about this opportunity.
Susan Friedmann [00:00:59]:
Well, as an email marketing expert, we are going to delve deep into email marketing and how our listeners, our authors can really use this tool because I believe it's such a powerful tool, and yet so many authors sort of rely on social media and less on their email marketing lists. So let's start there. Let's say I have a list. It's a small list, maybe 50 to a hundred subscribers. And most of my outreach is through social media. What would your advice be to me?
Kathy Farah [00:01:44]:
Right off, I would say make it easy for yourself. If you're already posting pretty frequently on social media, you can repurpose that content into emails. The first step that I would say, if you've had an email list, 50 to a hundred people that you've had for a little while but haven't emailed them in a while, then I would say you would wanna start first with reengaging that audience. And so what that means is that you're sending kind of a quick reminder email, not necessarily saying things like, hey. I know I haven't emailed in a while. It doesn't have to be a guilt thing. It's more about speaking to your audience to help them to understand how you're able to serve them, what you do today. Give them a little bit of a reminder of who you are and how you can help them so that the people that are on your list, let's be honest, most people don't really remember what they've signed up for.
Kathy Farah [00:02:46]:
And especially if it's been a while since you've emailed them, then you need to kinda put something out to kinda remind them so that they don't just think, who is this? Why is this person responding? Then once you've done the reengagement, then you can move to sending some regular content that you've repurposed from social media to your email list.
Susan Friedmann [00:03:08]:
Reengaging. This is not a selling email. Correct?
Kathy Farah [00:03:14]:
Absolutely not. You don't start with the pitch because that's a a fast way to get people to unsubscribe. You start more of giving them a taste of who you are and how you serve them. Think of it this way. Most people wonder to themselves, what's in it for me? When they receive an email, what's something that you can talk to them about that would show that you can help serve them or there's some tip or benefit that you can show to tie what you do to what they might need. And the assumption is that the people that are on your list have given you permission to email them. So there was something that you have done in the past that started that email list that had them interested to sign up. Now it's really a matter of reminding them of how you're able to serve them and what you're doing at this point.
Kathy Farah [00:04:09]:
If you've pivoted a little bit, let's say you're writing a book that's a little different than what you've written in the past, and you kind of help lead them down the journey to where they understand where you are now and what you're able to do for them today.
Susan Friedmann [00:04:22]:
Could you say, well, for the last few months or maybe the last year, I've been so involved and engrossed in getting my book out there that I've been deficient in emailing. Is that a way or you don't want any of the guilt?
Kathy Farah [00:04:42]:
I wouldn't lay the guilt, but I do think it's worthwhile telling the story of what's been going on for the last several months. I think that that idea of talking about, again, somebody that signed up for your list had a reason that they did it to begin with. Telling them about the behind the scenes is a great way to start. Like, if I've been engrossed in writing this and I'm in the publishing product that you're gonna start to see from me very soon. Which begs the next question, which
Susan Friedmann [00:05:17]:
I know our listeners want to know, is how can I promote my book without feeling salesy through email marketing?
Kathy Farah [00:05:27]:
Where you always start so think of it this way, is you start simply where you're providing every email you wanna write where you're writing to one reader. It's gonna be personalized. So if it's me, Kathy, you're just talking to me. It's not talking to everyone. Hey, everyone. It's speaking to me directly. And then you're writing about one topic and you always wanna start with one topic that is leading to, like, kind of what the next stage is. So you're not promoting, you're giving a value tip.
Kathy Farah [00:06:00]:
Like, there's something valuable that you're providing and maybe it's leading. So if the end result is to promote your book and you start with providing a little bit of insight about what's in your book. And it maybe it's a little bit of a nugget of what they can expect, and you're building that anticipation to where you eventually lead to promoting the book, the ask. You start with value first.
Susan Friedmann [00:06:25]:
Value first before sales.
Kathy Farah [00:06:28]:
Now,
Susan Friedmann [00:06:29]:
how do I go about buy my book? Which is what authors often want to say,
Kathy Farah [00:06:35]:
and they do say is, you know, I've
Susan Friedmann [00:06:38]:
got this book. I'm sure you're gonna want it. How do
Kathy Farah [00:06:41]:
I do that? That's the thing. Like I said, if there's some specific tips that kind of lead to so think about your emails. Like, for instance, your general idea is that you can send, unlike social media where you're having to post a lot every day to get the traction, with email marketing, you could do really one email a week. You think of it as like a series. You're kind of leading them to the journey. Each next step, which is your call to action, each next step may be leading to what can they expect next, and each you're building on with the idea that the end is going to be presenting and offering your book. The last email, if with that cadence, what you're doing is is you're writing one email a week that you're kinda leading to and next week you're gonna learn this and it's one small tip. And by the fourth email, then that's when you can present and promote your book.
Susan Friedmann [00:07:41]:
You're saying so. Maybe four weeks before you even sort of hint at the purchase side of it. But in the meantime, it's like, well, here's a great tip that you'll find in chapter five Yes. In my book and that I thought would be helpful.
Kathy Farah [00:07:58]:
Yes. You're leading them through the journey where you're giving them things that's getting them excited and you're building the anticipation for the obvious final step. Here's how you can get all the information.
Susan Friedmann [00:08:12]:
Now would you make an offer, give them a special price, a discount, or some added value that if they bought it now, that they could get a free tip sheet or a free checklist or some kind of extra. What would you recommend?
Kathy Farah [00:08:29]:
I would recommend offering so then maybe it's that you're, you've got some extra bonus materials that go along with your book, that if you buy today, you can get access to these bonus pieces. Maybe it's some simplified tool kit or it just depends on what your book topic is about, but you could offer that. You could say that they do a small discount if they buy today. You could do a variety of different things. So lean for what feels right to you. You don't necessarily always have to discount, but think about what feels right to you and what you're trying to accomplish. And really, the truth is is it's all a little bit of a test. There's no perfect way of doing these things.
Kathy Farah [00:09:18]:
It's a little bit try one approach, and if that doesn't really click with your audience, then offer the discount.
Susan Friedmann [00:09:25]:
Yeah. And you're right. Don't necessarily go straight for the discount. Rather, as you said, give that added value with a bonus. Yes. The thing that the average person buying the book wouldn't necessarily get so that they feel a little more special. Yes. Yeah.
Kathy Farah [00:09:45]:
More like VIPs being on your email list.
Susan Friedmann [00:09:48]:
I love that idea of treating your list. These are VIPs because they've taken a different step towards having that connection with you.
Kathy Farah [00:10:00]:
That's right. So they've taken the time. They're not just going through a bookstore and coming across the book. These are people that are fans. Think about how you look at your own email. How often do you give your email out? Probably not as often anymore.
Susan Friedmann [00:10:14]:
Yeah. Less and less. I mean, it used to be my newsletter. Now it's getting harder and harder to encourage somebody to part with their email list because we're all inundated with emails every single day. I mean, it's overwhelming.
Kathy Farah [00:10:33]:
Right. You know that if someone has done that and they have a genuine interest in what you're talking about, what your topic is, that's where you want to give that added value. That's the other benefit of email marketing compared to social media is that you don't know if your message has come across to your audience. Even if you have thousands of followers on social media, you don't know if the algorithm puts that post in front of that audience. But with email marketing, as long as you're providing value, then people start to connect your name to what you're gonna be talking about and start to look forward to see you in their inbox, especially if you start to handle that with some consistency. Every Tuesday, I send an email out. They start to expect, oh, I'm gonna learn more. The next week, I'm gonna hear about the next part of this story.
Susan Friedmann [00:11:31]:
I remember that when my father passed away, I didn't send out emails. And I thought, oh my goodness, what's going to happen? And am I gonna lose people? Are they going to inquire what's happened? It was crickets. I don't think anybody paid any attention to the fact that for maybe two, three weeks that I didn't send out emails.
Kathy Farah [00:11:57]:
Right. That's why I say there's no reason to put the guilt trip on yourself or feeling like, oh, no, people aren't going because truthfully, we all know, just look at your own inbox. We have a lot going on in that inbox. I think that's what you just have to remind yourself. Don't put the pressure on yourself. It's all about just taking that small action because each of those moments are micro touches of visibility in front of your audience. So when you do come back in, just remember to speak to them with, here's how I want to speak to my audience and provide a value to them. That's why they're opening the email.
Susan Friedmann [00:12:37]:
Okay. That was exactly where I was going to go next. How do you get people to open the email? Because I know that I look at my list of emails that have come in, and I go boom, delete, delete, delete, delete. Before I've even opened them, how does somebody open my email?
Kathy Farah [00:12:56]:
Well, there's a couple of factors. One of them is definitely to get people to open, it's a subject line. So it's like the title of your book. Right? Something's gonna grab or the cover of your book. It's gonna be something that grabs attention. Your subject line is important to help you show the value you might be presenting. So you have a very quick opportunity to grab that attention because like what you just were describing in your own inbox, many of us do the same thing. If in that subject line, it doesn't look clear to me that you're gonna be able to do something for me, I might just move on.
Kathy Farah [00:13:32]:
The other side of it is if your email address is something that's recognizable, my email address is [email protected]. So it feels more personal. Instead of saying [email protected], then it feels like it's an email coming from me to my audience. And my audience knows that it's probably a group of emails that are going out, but it feels more personalized. So that's another indicator sometimes people will open because, oh, Kathy's sending me an email, what she got to say. As long as I've been writing things with value, then that's gonna trigger someone to open when maybe if my subject line didn't quite catch it, that might be the other reason why somebody's gonna open.
Susan Friedmann [00:14:19]:
That's something very interesting, and I have not heard that before. But I like it because you're right. I mean, mine is susanavivapubs dot com. It's coming from Susan. Yes. Yours is coming from Kathy. Yes. Rather than, as you say, info admin at support at where you don't know who this person is, even if it is a person.
Kathy Farah [00:14:43]:
Right. Exactly. When you have that email address that looks like it's coming from a person, it makes more of a difference, just like it's a friend.
Susan Friedmann [00:14:51]:
Now another thing that authors are wanting from their readers are reviews, testimonials. Is that something that they could do through email marketing?
Kathy Farah [00:15:05]:
Absolutely. If you go to taking the time to do, like, an email series, where if you're able to identify in some way that they have signed up for your book or get a review, you can always do things. There's a couple of ways we could do this where the simplest way is you've promoted your book and maybe you've noticed that people have clicked the link to go purchase the book. Then possibly sending a follow-up email with the fact that they've clicked that link to see if they purchased the book. What did you think? Did something come to mind? That's a great opportunity for you to verify, did they purchase and ask for, did you love it? When you get that conversation started, you could start to ask for those reviews. That's one angle. If you take a little bit of time to what they call it in email marketing is like tag them or note that they've clicked something. There's that opportunity.
Kathy Farah [00:16:08]:
The other thing is what you could do is after a period of time where you've sent these valuable and you've asked for, here, I presented your book, then what you can do is you could attempt to make the request for this is the value of when you make a review of the book, this is how others find it. When people start getting very interested in what you're doing, then they love to be able to support the person that has written that book. Asking, just a simple ask. And oftentimes that email, you wanna give a possibly a couple of guiding questions of things that maybe would be helpful, like, here's some ideas of, like, a question that might lead them on what might be valuable for you in that review. Does that make sense?
Susan Friedmann [00:16:55]:
Did I say that by
Kathy Farah [00:16:56]:
the way?
Susan Friedmann [00:16:57]:
Yes. Yes. Yes. This also begs the thought, you know, the idea, the question, automated messaging. Talk to us about that and how we would go about that. When is the right time to do it? When isn't the right time to do it?
Kathy Farah [00:17:14]:
One good time is when you are doing that as part of your process for welcoming them into your community. Let's say you've got somebody that signed up for your email list, then what happens next after they've signed up? In some cases, I've had people say, well, it's like they just signed up and they get a quick message that says thank you. Well, you wouldn't invite somebody into your home and open the door and turn around and walk away. You invite them in and you give a little bit of guidance of, you know, here's where you can find this. This is, you know, come join us. That's essentially when you're doing an automated email is what they call welcome email. And it's a series of emails that happens initially after that person has signed up. And then you can send a series of emails that lets them know more about who you are, what type of things that you can do to help them leading to potentially telling them more about the book.
Kathy Farah [00:18:09]:
Maybe it becomes the end of that sequence is get my first chapter. And so you're welcome. And so that's a good opportunity for automation. The next opportunity would be for those follow ups. If people have clicked, then creating a series of emails to follow-up to see if there's about asking for the review. That could be a good place to automate so that at some point after they've clicked, then you can follow-up a couple of days later with what did you think, and here's the link to leave me a review. That make sense? Like, I've driven things through your process.
Susan Friedmann [00:18:53]:
Is there an optimum number of emails in a series, in a sequence?
Kathy Farah [00:19:01]:
In a welcome sequence, what I generally in a welcome again is just when right after someone has signed up. Normally, I would say they can be short. They can be long. Generally, what I recommend is three to five emails where you're leading them to the end result being what's that final step to work with you. So it starts with value. Like, you're giving them a little bit of background of who you are, and the next several emails may be one tip or something that entices them about the book. And then the final step of that series of emails is either they could purchase the book or they get some next step. Maybe it's the first chapter to entice them more.
Kathy Farah [00:19:42]:
Three to five emails. If you were doing a follow-up series where maybe you're trying to get that review, you could do less, you could do more of like one to two emails. It just varies on what you're trying to do. Another option would be potentially if you were doing where you were spacing out a nurture, like, you were wanting to send your books, maybe more involved and you might wanna send more emails. You can also automate that to where each week there's an email that goes out so that you're not having to go, oh, no. It's Tuesday. I gotta get this email out today. You can automate those as well to where you kinda make a plan ahead of time as to where you're leading, and what tips you're gonna be providing.
And Okay. That could be a little bit of a longer series based off of where you maybe might have six or seven emails before the ask. It just depends on what works for you.
Susan Friedmann [00:20:42]:
There's a lot of testing involved here when you say what works because nobody knows definitively what works. I know marketing is an inexact science.
Kathy Farah [00:20:52]:
You're right. That's where you could look at analytics and look at the numbers to see if it's working.
Susan Friedmann [00:20:59]:
Looking at those analytics, and I was just looking at mine today and realizing, oh, these emails bounced. You know, I hate to say point 2% of emails bounced. And I looked at them, and I was like, I need to take these off if they're bouncing. And I need to send people emails that are not going to get opened. That sort of skews everything. So it's worth looking at that. And that begs the question something that I get asked a lot, and I'm sure you do too. What are the best tools to use?
Kathy Farah [00:21:31]:
For email marketing? Yeah. Yeah. To be honest with you, the tool that I've kind of leaned into is ConvertKit or Kit is what they've named. And the reason for that is the simplicity. It's a more straightforward system compared to some of the more popular ones like Mailchimp or, you know, HubSpot, things like that. HubSpot tends to be a little bit more advanced if you have a bigger system or needs CRM, which is like a client relationship management system. Kit has a good the reason why I kinda leaned into that and direct a lot of clients to that is because it's more straightforward to build out automation is a little bit more straightforward. The look of your emails, it's a little easier to plan those things out to where it doesn't feel as overwhelming in trying to do your email marketing.
Some of the other tools I have found sometimes could be a little confusing to figure out how to set up some of those other features, and then people don't end up using any of it.
Susan Friedmann [00:22:39]:
Yes. That's always the case. It's like there's far more than you ever use in these tools. And I've used Convertkit. I think I've gone through most of the tools that are out there. Each time I change, it's for a particular reason because that particular tool, unfortunately, doesn't offer what I need. You know, I know that I changed from one platform to another because I wanted affiliates, and it couldn't monitor that for me. Every time, it's like a change.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:13]:
But it's painful to to change when you do want to change these platforms.
Kathy Farah [00:23:19]:
It it is. So you bring up a really valuable point there. I think you could get advice from any of us about what you might need to lean to, but truly looking at and doing what you're talking about, what are the things that you need the most? If you're trying to simply send emails and just get into starting emails, then a simpler system might work. But if you need more advanced options, then those are the things you want to be able to kind of look to see what system best suits those needs at that time. Because the key is at the end of the day, you want like you said, it's hard to switch around between email systems as you're doing this. You would wanna lean towards something that you can kinda be with for a period of time. I think looking at what features and things you might need, the goal being you want to be able to get yourself into the routine and consistency of emailing. Don't make it so difficult that you don't end up emailing.
Like, that's really the point.
Susan Friedmann [00:24:23]:
That's really important. Yes. Yeah. It's the fact that people get caught up in, Oh, which platform is the best one for me to use? And you said, What you need? And sometimes you don't know what you need. I didn't know, but as I grew and I was looking to do different things, then I had to make the change. But in the beginning, when it was just emails, as you say ConvertKit or KitNow as it's called, which I did not know.
Kathy Farah [00:24:51]:
Yeah. It's KitNow. Yeah.
Susan Friedmann [00:24:53]:
Thank you. That I had to make that change. And as much as I didn't want to, but I also wanted the other features, and that was more important. So I had to look at other options. Now another question that I get is, how often should I send out emails? What is too much? What is too little? What does consistency mean?
Kathy Farah [00:25:21]:
Okay. That's a good question. So I would say, first off, I think when you're thinking about email marketing, if you haven't emailed in a while, the very first thing I would tell you is think about what's gonna be realistic for you. Generally, you want to send at least one email a month. That's minimum. Right? But, ideally, you would want to do that more often. So I have some clients that do it twice a month, and that's all they've got the space for in their month is to only I only wanna write two emails. I don't want to write them every week.
Kathy Farah [00:25:57]:
What I recommend to most clients is to say at least once a week. And, generally, the way I kinda do my emails is I will send out my weekly newsletter on Tuesdays at the same time. So it's Tuesdays at 08:30AM. That becomes something that my audience expects is that there's gonna be something that comes out Tuesday at 08:30 every week. Now the other part that I end up doing to try to help with some of my open rates is that I then will send a follow-up email on Thursday to anyone that didn't open my Tuesday email. So in reality, I'm sending two emails a week, but the only thing that's changing between email one on Tuesday and then email two on Thursday is my subject line to see if I can grab attention in a different way to see if I can get more people to open and engage with my email. For me, that's my consistent measure. And so that's kind of what I mean by consistency is that you show up at the same time.
Kathy Farah [00:27:02]:
If it's only two times a month, then pick the two times that you're gonna do it. Every other Thursday, you're gonna get something from me at 10AM. Then stay consistent with that timing so that that starts to be something that your audience knows and looks for.
Susan Friedmann [00:27:20]:
Are you sending that second email to the people who, in your analytics, showed that they didn't open the email, or you send it to everybody?
Kathy Farah [00:27:31]:
No. No. No. No. I only send it to just the people that did not open the first email.
Susan Friedmann [00:27:38]:
Okay. Give us an example of, let's say and I don't wanna put you on the spot, but I'm pretty sure you're gonna start is a number one email headline and a number two email headline.
Kathy Farah [00:27:51]:
Oh, what's examples of that? That's a good question. The way I typically do my emails so because I write about email marketing, what I generally do is I try to write emails that speak to a problem and a possible solution. That's kind of my subject line approach. I vary on what mine. So for this week, I'm starting a series of emails that's leading down the road of helping people that are in the business to business scenario. So a lot of times corporate clients, the theme is going along the lines of people that are purchasing email addresses rather than having people sign up with permission. My first subject line I attempted, I did the first sign of trouble was a blocked email. That's my subject line.
Kathy Farah [00:28:48]:
I try to make it short. That particular subject line had about a 60% open rate. To give you an idea, your average open rate oftentimes is about 20%. I've got a fairly engaged audience, but since I only got 60%, why not see if I could get more? My second email on Thursday, my subject line changed to your list is growing, but is it working? Question mark. And so that second email went to less people, just to the people that didn't open, and that one only got, like, an 8% open rate. Now granted, it was a much smaller amount of people. That subject line didn't work as well. It is something that you recognize that you're having to sorta test to see what resonates with your particular audience.
Susan Friedmann [00:29:39]:
But still, if you look at that, you got 68% open rate, if my math is correct.
Kathy Farah [00:29:45]:
Right. Exactly.
Susan Friedmann [00:29:46]:
Which is amazing. I would be, like, over the moon if I got that kind of percentage open rate.
Kathy Farah [00:29:53]:
So but that's the kind of step. So sometimes I did one where the subject line was, I'm a writer, but here's my dirty little secret. Sometimes I'm doing it curiosity based. That's the kind of thing I do, like, to test and tweak and see what gets the attention. Like, what's gonna click with somebody?
Susan Friedmann [00:30:15]:
Yeah. I love it. Which is a great segue, Kathy, for you to tell our listeners how they can find out more about you and you being able to help them with their email marketing.
Kathy Farah [00:30:28]:
The way you could connect with me, if you want to get a little bit more about how to reengage your email list, if that's where you're starting, I actually have something free for your listeners that they can go to www.kathyfarahcom/reengage, and you can get my Re-engagement Guide. It gives you some tips on the two types of emails that you would want to write and the AI prompts if you're interested in using AI or it's just got a couple of the little sample emails templates of what you might use to try to reengage your audience before you start to email your list. That's one way. But I love working with people when it comes to email marketing and helping people as they're getting started on their journey, build those welcome sequences, build their re engagement sequences, and even those promotional email sequences. You can find me at kathyferra dot com.
Susan Friedmann [00:31:37]:
That's fabulous. And I'll put all those in the show notes because that's invaluable. And thank you for the gift. Our listeners love gifts, so that's really very generous of you. And as you know, Kathy, our guests always leave our listeners with a golden nugget. What's yours?
Kathy Farah [00:31:57]:
I would say stay consistent with your emails. Don't quit before you've tried to at least consistently email your list. Things aren't always going to work every time, but what you can start doing is start with those small micro touches and send those emails out, send them on a regular schedule, and keep going. Consistency is what's gonna really work. Email marketing is more of a marathon, not a sprint.
Susan Friedmann [00:32:32]:
Mhmm. And marketing is a marathon. I talk about that with book marketing. There are no sprints. There are no courses. Exactly. And if somebody tells you there are, I'm sorry, I would question that.
Kathy Farah [00:32:44]:
Exactly. The minute you hear that it is, Oh, you can make this much this quick, be weary.
Susan Friedmann [00:32:51]:
Exactly. Kathy, this has been amazing. You brought up a subject that I thought, oh my goodness, we should have touched on that and the whole idea of AI prompts and using that. I think that that is a good invitation for a part two. What do you think?
Kathy Farah [00:33:07]:
Oh, I would love that. I am a big fan of AI and how to use it effectively.
Susan Friedmann [00:33:14]:
Oh, that will be excellent. We will definitely schedule that. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
And by the way, listeners, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money, and energy, and it's time you got the return you were hoping for. Go to bookmarketingbrainstorm.com to schedule your free call. And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week, here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.
Here's how to get your copy of Kathy's Re-engagement Guide.
