Susan Friedmann [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas and tips from the masters. Every week I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books. Today my special guest is Aurora Winter, MBA. She's a successful entrepreneur, best selling author, TV writer, producer and and the founder of SamePagePublishing.com her award winning books include Turn Words into Wealth and Magic, Mystery and the Multiverse. Using her expertise in film and neuroscience, she helps people tell memorable stories that build brands, books and businesses. Aurora, it's an absolute pleasure to welcome you to the show and and thank you for being this week's guest, expert and mentor.
Aurora Winter [00:00:56]:
Thanks for having me on.
Susan Friedmann [00:00:57]:
Susan, we were having a wonderful conversation before we went on the air and one of the things that I really wanted to hone in on is how you turn words into wealth. I mean, this is the title of your book, but what does that mean? And how could authors take advantage of your expertise for their books?
Aurora Winter [00:01:22]:
Well, I love this topic. Obviously I wouldn't have written a whole book about it and there are so many different ways to turn words into wealth and we can get into that. But the first thing I would love everybody to just consider is what if your book is just the beginning of the relationship with the reader as opposed to the end? And I'm going to tell a little story on myself. Susan. My first published book, I put all of my love and effort into it and in my naivete I thought that that book would be everything that people needed. And I was quite surprised when people reached out to me and wanted coaching or consulting or they wanted more help. And the first book I published, which was not intended to start a business or start coaching or consulting or speaking, actually launched the business. And I'm like, oh, pay attention, Aurora.
Aurora Winter [00:02:13]:
I invite everybody to think of your book as the beginning of a contribution to the reader and the beginning of a journey. As you talk about. Susan, people like short books solve a problem, solve it effectively, but then also let them know what else you do, what other problems you solve or potentially how they can work with you. So we can go into some exact examples of different ways to make seven figures with your message if you'd like.
Susan Friedmann [00:02:42]:
Oh, I'm sure the listeners would like that. I wouldn't want to stop you there. However, one of the things that I heard you say that was from the get go, there's a big mindset shift in terms of the book not being the business, but rather it helps develop the business. Did I hear that correctly.
Aurora Winter [00:03:03]:
That is the key mind shift that I'd love listeners to take away if they get that from this. They've already got their money's worth from listening to this podcast. Because so many authors that I work with, they are very passionate about their topic, but they often think the book has got to be the encyclopedia of all their knowledge and that the book is the end product. And while a book is an end product, it really doesn't serve the author to think of it that way. It's better to think of it as an appetizer. And you've got a whole buffet of things that you could offer people. For example, before we started recording Susan, you mentioned that when you started speaking, people perhaps didn't need a book. But nowadays it's de rigueur.
Aurora Winter [00:03:44]:
It's necessary to have a book if you want to be on the speaking circuit. All speakers who are taken seriously have a book. So that is one simple thing to consider, especially with a nonfiction book. Some people may want you to come and speak to their event, or they may want to, I don't know, talk to you on zoom one on one. But if you don't plant that possibility in your book, they might think, oh, she's not interested in that. Actually, speaking is one of the most lucrative professions ever. If you are a speaker, at the very minimum, put it in your bio, your author's bio at the back of your book. But even better, if it fits with the topic of your book, why not mention throughout the chapters, just a little salt or a little sugar or a little cinnamon.
Aurora Winter [00:04:32]:
Oh, when I was speaking here, when I was speaking there. And then without even pitching yourself as a speaker, you've planted the seed, oh, she's available, or he's available as a speaker. So that is one way. And it doesn't take that many words to just plant the seed. And the right people will go, oh, great, I can hire Susan as a speaker, or I can work with her with my book marketing or whatever the case may be.
Susan Friedmann [00:04:55]:
Yes, and that's so true. And that's a message that I always want the authors to understand that it is going to open doors for you. But yet you've got to let people know that you're available to do speaking, coaching, consulting. They don't know if you don't tell.
Aurora Winter [00:05:15]:
Them, they don't know if you don't tell them. And certainly you want to put it on your website as well. But you have to have a strong invitation for people to get to your website. So don't neglect putting it in your book. The other thing people could consider is using a book more specifically as a lead magnet for their business or even a way to test pivoting your business or offering a new product or service. I've launched multiple seven figure businesses. I launched a film and television production company, raised 5 million, we made eight films. But later I was doing a different kind of coaching business.
Aurora Winter [00:05:51]:
But people more and more kept asking me, how did you write so many books, how did you get on radio and tv and can you help me do the same? I wanted to test the idea of pivoting my business, but because I like books, I figured I would use a.
Susan Friedmann [00:06:04]:
Book to do so.
Aurora Winter [00:06:06]:
So marketing Fast track is the little book. It was just based on a one hour interview. Somebody interviewed me and I liked the interview and I tidied it up and I turned it into a little book. And then I offered the book for free to my email list, which at that time was 12,000 people. And then I sent them a series of videos to add more value about what is this marketing thing anyway and what is a marketing funnel and what is a million dollar message and added value. And at the end of giving them five free tastes of more valuable content, I just said, hey, if you'd like more help, one on one, you can sign up here for a free business breakthrough call at Bookcall Biz. And the result of that was twofold. One, $250,000 of new business in 90 days.
Aurora Winter [00:06:51]:
And two, I had certainty and confidence that I could shift my business to helping people create million dollar messages. Helping people with their messaging, their marketing and their book publishing. That's a very valuable way to use a book. And it's the opposite of trying to put all of your encyclopedic knowledge into a book. Let's just give a little taste of it. I really like the idea of people who are in business entrepreneurs or business owners using a little book as a lead magnet. And also to test if people are interested. I want to share that I spent about $12,000 marketing generated $250,000.
Aurora Winter [00:07:31]:
But an example of doing this, that happened just August 17th. Actually, I remember the date because it's my birthday. Alex Hormozi launched the third book in his nonfiction series, what's it called? 100 Million Money Models. And he generated about $80 million in a weekend and he sold 3 million books, largely using the free book plus upsell model. So while I did it to generate a measly $250,000, other people with bigger Lists have done it in spades, and he's a good example of that. In fact, if you go to my YouTube channel, which is called Strategic Basics, you can dive in deep and learn about how he did that for free.
Susan Friedmann [00:08:14]:
And that's fantastic. And I know Alex and I've interviewed him and yes, he's just an amazing guy. And he's got the following too. Let's look at this. If you don't have the following, how do we start building wealth with our book? Giving it away for free. That's the taster. And you want people to come. What else could I our authors be doing?
Aurora Winter [00:08:42]:
Well, the other thing, for people who don't have a list, what I want you to know is that the root of the word authority is author. Once you have your published book, you are an authority because you are an author. And so, as I detail in my book, Turn Words into Wealth, one of the great ways to use a book, even if you have zero list, which is how I started, is attracting the premium clients who will gladly pay you premium prices because you are the number one go to authority. Maybe you're the go to authority in the world, as you were, Susan, with your first published book that sold half a million copies. Or maybe you're just the number one expert that they know that they can reach out to. I mean, maybe some people would rather work with Alex Hormozi than with me. Fair enough. But on the other hand, if they've met me, maybe they'd rather work with me because it's a personal contact.
Aurora Winter [00:09:40]:
Right.
Susan Friedmann [00:09:41]:
I was just going to say yes. Yeah.
Aurora Winter [00:09:43]:
Don't underestimate the value of being the go to expert that somebody knows. And what I have seen time and time again is when my clients don't have a book, maybe they can get speaking gigs for $5,000 once they've got a book, maybe that's $35,000. So your book actually made you $30,000 even if you gave it away for free. You in just that one speaking engagement that paid more. And certainly I'm sure you've experienced this. I glad to hear your comments as well, Susan. But I have noticed time and time again that people often find me just from my book. Maybe they hear me on a podcast or maybe they read my book Turn words into Wealth.
Aurora Winter [00:10:21]:
Then if the right people end up having a breakthrough call with me, their next step could easily be five figures. Again, that's a lot more than what a book itself sells for. So don't underestimate the value of attracting premium clients. At premium prices by being the authority.
Susan Friedmann [00:10:38]:
And often people don't want to wear that mantle of authority. They're embarrassed by it. Then there's the imposter syndrome. That sets in a lot of psychological stuff, which I know you know a lot about. Yeah, that sets in and it sort of holds them back. What kind of suggestions, advice would you give them?
Aurora Winter [00:11:01]:
Yes, I do love mindset because I think everything is twice created. And the first time you create it in your mind to create a blueprint for what you want in your life or in your business, that has to happen first before it will materialize in the actual world. And I think it's very helpful to know I talk about it and turn words into wealth. You're not alone if you've got imposter syndrome. You're not alone if you're procrastinating and being a perfectionist. And nonetheless, you can still get the book done or get the next book done or the next book done by giving yourself a deadline and reminding yourself why you're doing it. The lives that you want to change, the income that you want to make, the difference that you want to make, the legacy that you want to leave, and also reminding yourself it's good to have something pulling you forward and also something chasing you. So the thing chasing you could be.
Aurora Winter [00:12:02]:
You don't want to be under deathbed. That book still in its umpteenth draft.
Susan Friedmann [00:12:07]:
It's funny because I work really well with deadlines, and my VA knows this, so she's chasing me if I'm not on the deadlines that we had planned.
Aurora Winter [00:12:18]:
So deadlines are very helpful. For example, my father. I hate to say this story, but I think it might be useful for the listeners. I love my dad. He's the author of two textbooks on economics, but he's drafted another book, and I helped him with it 15 years ago, and he's still revising it because part of him just is not ready to let it go. But it's not going to get finished now because now, unfortunately, he's 94 and he can't see anymore. He can't see well enough to type or revise. You don't have forever.
Aurora Winter [00:12:52]:
This is why I took my MBA in 2015. A friend of mine said this phrase, and I'd love people to lean into it. If not now, when? If not now, when? So if that book's in your heart or a trip to Greece is on your heart, or telling somebody you love them is on your heart, if not now, when?
Susan Friedmann [00:13:12]:
Yeah, absolutely. Because we just don't know what's going to happen you this evening, tomorrow, next week, next month. There's no time like the present. The power of now as Eckhart Tolle talked about. I love that book. I know that you believe very strongly in YouTube and Amazon for getting visibility.
Aurora Winter [00:13:41]:
Talk to us about that.
Susan Friedmann [00:13:42]:
Not necessarily my go to, but I would love to hear why you feel that this is such a go to platform for you to use.
Aurora Winter [00:13:53]:
Well, it's actually data more than a feeling. I have an mba, so I like to know what are the numbers saying? I think we all agree that we're authors or you're desiring to be an author. If you're listening to this show, Amazon is the number three search engine. If you have a nonfiction book, you solve a problem. Make sure your title is clear, the title and or subtitle are clear. What is the problem that you solve? Don't be cute, be clear. And that book can bring you people from around the world. So Amazon is the number three search engine.
Aurora Winter [00:14:23]:
The other good thing about having a book is that typically you would then also have your book listed on Goodreads and Goodreads is indexed by the LLMs like ChatGPT or Cloud or various other large language models. The number two search engine though is YouTube. People go to Amazon when they're ready to buy, so that's good to know. They usually have their credit card installed and buying a book is very inexpensive. So if you're there with your book, you're ready to take that order and begin a relationship with the reader. And if you read Turn Words into Wealth, I'll challenge you to find which is your million dollar path to eventually take that reader on. But when people go to YouTube, they're looking for solutions to problems. They may not necessarily have their credit card out, but it is the number two search engine.
Aurora Winter [00:15:10]:
And in fact the views on YouTube actually have overtaken the number of downloads and views on Netflix or Apple or it's just absolutely staggering. I did a whole strategic basics episode about it on YouTube. So YouTube is the number two search engine. So I recommend that you get on YouTube. Once you're on those two, then what happens is the LLMs or AI such as ChatGPT indexes those two things. I've had prospects come to me and book a call at bookcall Biz because Chat GPT told them about me because I'm on Amazon and I'm on YouTube now. Of course, Susan, podcasts are also a very good thing to be on and I know you're all over that only you also have a YouTube channel. Why I decided to start a YouTube channel, or I already had a YouTube channel, why I decided to start Strategic Basics is I wanted people to see my face.
Aurora Winter [00:16:09]:
I thought, or I do think that in 2025, in the age of AI, that we need to, as Joanna Penn would say, double down on being human. I think there's a lot of value in people seeing your face. I'm sure you would know, Susan, but perhaps the listeners would as well know about Gary Vaynerchuk. He's all about your personal brand. He's going to be the only asset that you have. It's going to be your ip, your face, your voice, your intellectual property. Your personal brand is going to be the only valuable thing that you have in the future. So I wanted to lean into that anyway.
Aurora Winter [00:16:42]:
How does that stand out with you?
Susan Friedmann [00:16:44]:
I'm absolutely in agreement. Yes, I've got my video on YouTube and it, however, it's voice only because this is my form of podcasting is audio only. I like it to be sort of the npr, but I've been told it should be video. Everything should be video. I think that's the next step for me, and I've been saying that for quite a while, but I think the time has come to do that. But let's talk more about that in depth. If YouTube is the number two search engine, then how should you show up on YouTube to make sure that they know about you and how long should you be on? What's your formula?
Aurora Winter [00:17:32]:
Well, I guess we should also talk about the number one search engine. I think most people would agree that the number one search engine used to be Google and it used to be SEO search engine optimization. But I believe I'm not alone in seeing that it's shifting to geo. In other words, people searching on their chatgpt or whatever their favorite LLM is. To answer your question about YouTube, I don't pretend to be the YouTube expert because I only started my YouTube channel a few months ago. But here's what I can tell you that I'm passionate about. I decided to be contrarian. I know that's something that you would agree with, Susan.
Aurora Winter [00:18:10]:
So I looked at what is the content out there and I realized, you know, there's a lot of content on YouTube and this is my own personal philosophy. So don't take this as gospel. See if this is useful for you, but do your own research for your own business. I did the contrarian thing. So I looked at the YouTube content and I Said, okay, a lot of this content is how to content. But I believe that people are going to ask how to questions to ChatGPT and Cloud and similar. I thought, you know what, what can I offer that is not how to content only and also has my personal stories is a story that only I could share and that has some energy to it. So I decided that what I would talk about is breaking news turned into business breakthroughs because then it's got the edge of something that just happened or recently happened.
Aurora Winter [00:18:59]:
As an example being I covered Alex Hormozi's book launch, but then focusing on my area of expertise, which is communication, TVs and movies, books and publishing and messaging, branding basically. And that's a lot of fun. And then I decided also to lean into my background as a film and television executive producer. My episodes, we aim for around 12 minutes, which is around half of a half hour TV show. A 30 minute TV show is actually only 22 minutes, so a half of that is around 11 or 12 minutes. And then we actually use AI to make it beautiful. So it's not just talking heads. We have Runway and mid journey and other beautiful elements.
Aurora Winter [00:19:43]:
And we add music. So it's like it's authentic because it's me meandering around but saying what I'm passionate about. But then it's got this fun eye candy. So I did that because it's doubling down on being human. People see my face, people hear my stories. But then it's also distinct from what else is out there because it's more of a visual treat.
Susan Friedmann [00:20:05]:
I like it. I'm going to check that out because I really want to see how you're doing that. And that'll give me some more impetus, I think, to do this.
Aurora Winter [00:20:15]:
Actually, I did an episode of how to use AI to save 20 to 30 hours a week and I gave the whole list of all of the resources that we use on the YouTube channel. So I'm glad to chat with you again, Susan. But for the listeners, they can get that information, but have fun with it.
Susan Friedmann [00:20:29]:
It's so funny because I can talk on zoom no problem. Somehow getting in front of that one camera where it's just me, there's something that freezes. And I know other people have this, but it's getting over that psychological block.
Aurora Winter [00:20:46]:
Those darn psychological blocks get us at every turn.
Susan Friedmann [00:20:50]:
Yes, I know, don't they?
Aurora Winter [00:20:51]:
Well, here's my way of thinking about it. I was totally lame at the beginning. I'm still only okay, but I'm improving. Here's how I think about it. I thought about my YouTube channel. I'm like, if I win, I win. But if I lose, I still win. So here's how.
Aurora Winter [00:21:04]:
If I lose, I win looks. I become more confident on camera. I become more clear and articulate with my message. I become more informed about the news. For example, it's very easy for me to tell you as many details as you want about Alex Hormozi's book launch because I did a 20 minute episode about it and I really researched it for four hours. It helps me become a better communicator and make more of a contribution when I'm on a podcast or when I'm talking to my clients. If I lose, I still become a better communicator that's more informed, that has stories at her fingertips. And if I win, well, it also will attract new clients.
Aurora Winter [00:21:40]:
So I figure either way, it's a go.
Susan Friedmann [00:21:43]:
It's a win win. It's a win win.
Aurora Winter [00:21:44]:
Good.
Susan Friedmann [00:21:45]:
I like that. So another area or another platform that I know that you like and have been very successful on, and that is Amazon ads. And I know we've had experts talk about Amazon ads, but I'd love to hear it from your perspective, how you use it with your clients and how helpful it's been and why.
Aurora Winter [00:22:06]:
Well, Amazon ads are a whole kettle of fish and it's quite the learning process to go through. So I don't actually claim to be an Amazon ad expert, but I do have this tip that may be useful for those of your listeners who are marketing their book right now. I have a fantasy series called Magic Mystery, the Multiverse, and I had a video for it already because I'm pitching it as a TV series. So I said to my son, who's my tech guru, my cto, why don't we put the video ad on Amazon? And I am blown away. The performance of the video ad is like about seven times better ROI than your typical text ad. Something to consider playing with.
Susan Friedmann [00:22:51]:
Interesting. Very interesting. Wow, there's a lot to take in here. All these different approaches. I don't think there's any one right approach. It's just doing something and doing it consistently rather than constantly looking at new shiny objects and following without even thinking about what somebody else is doing and why they're doing. It's just, oh, they look as if they've been successful or they are successful and if they are, then I'm going to be. So let me do exactly what they're doing.
Aurora Winter [00:23:25]:
Well, sometimes it is good to see what's working. But then sometimes you're just following a tidal wave and you won't stand out. And I want to circle back around to the YouTube. You don't have to be on video. I choose to be on video. But you do have a YouTube channel, Susan, and that could be marketed a little bit more. I would like to help you with that.
Susan Friedmann [00:23:43]:
Yes.
Aurora Winter [00:23:44]:
But you have a YouTube channel. You can definitely be found by people who are looking on YouTube, the number two search engine. So you can tick that box. Hey, maybe you do want to do video or maybe you want to market a bit more, or maybe you want to after this chat go, maybe I'll pay a bit more attention to YouTube. But you do already have a YouTube channel and it doesn't have to be video.
Susan Friedmann [00:24:04]:
Well, that's good to know. That makes me feel a lot better already. Yeah. All these people saying, oh, you've got to do video, you've got to do video. So, yes, Aurora, I think this is a wonderful segue for you to start telling our listeners more about you, your services and how they can get hold of you.
Aurora Winter [00:24:24]:
Thanks, Susan. My website is samepagepublishing.com so same as then I come in the same side as my clients. Basically, I am that weird combination of somebody who's written 10 books, likes writing both fiction and nonfiction. But the other thing that's kind of unusual about me is that I've launched multiple businesses that have grown to seven figures. So I really like the whole challenge of taking a business 10x ing it. And then I have a background as a film and television writer, producer. If I'm working on a fiction book with a client, we typically have an eye toward turning it into a TV series or a movie. But you can sometimes do that with a nonfiction book.
Aurora Winter [00:25:06]:
So for the listeners who already are running a successful business who want VIP one on one support to be interviewed so they don't have to type a single word and they can just talk their story with me interviewing them. Those would be the kinds of people that I typically help. And they can find out more at samepagepublishing.com or aurorawinter.com, which is my name, a U R O-R-A W-I N T E R.com and there's some gifts for you on those pages too.
Susan Friedmann [00:25:36]:
Beautiful. And I'll put all that information in the show notes and also your social media contacts so people can connect with you in many different ways, which is lovely, as you know. Always ask our guests to leave our listeners with A golden nugget. And what's yours?
Aurora Winter [00:25:56]:
Okay, I love this. I'm going to give you a quote that's in my book turn words into wealth. It's actually Jordan Peterson and he said it turns out that a book is more durable than stone. It's more durable than a castle, it's more durable than an empire. And that's really interesting and I love that because book is part of our legacies and books can be very durable. And what I love about books is I feel like they're idea seeds that germinate when somebody opens that book and reads it and waters it with their attention. And the author can be long dead. I mean, I've been mentored by Ralph Waldo Emerson, by Wayne Dyer, by many people like C.S.
Lewis, who are long dead. And your books may do the same.
Susan Friedmann [00:26:48]:
And so many people write legacies and they want to be remembered in some way. Yes, I love that quote that I'm going to listen to that over. I'm going to write it out. And the idea of the idea seeds, that's beautiful because I believe that's all about what marketing is, that you're planting these seeds and. And you've got to water them in order for them to start growing.
Aurora Winter [00:27:13]:
Exactly right.
Susan Friedmann [00:27:14]:
It's beautiful. Aurora, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and listeners. By the way, before I jump into my little piece about how to get hold of me, I want you to go back and listen to this conversation again and maybe even a third time because Aurora did something through out this conversation where she was dropping the name of her book. I lost count of how many times she said it, but she was doing it and it was strategic and it was beautifully woven into what she was talking about. And that's a lot of what she was saying with her messaging without feeling that go buy my book. No, it's like this was in my book. I just wanted to point that out, which I thought was beautiful strategy Aurora, that you were absolutely demonstrating so skillfully. I think our listeners need to take note of that.
Susan Friedmann [00:28:17]:
Any event, listeners, if your book isn't selling the way you wanted or expected to, let's you and I jump on a quick call together to brainstorm ways to ramp up those sales because you've invested a whole lot of time, money and energy and it's time you got the return you were hoping for. So go to bookmarketingbrainstorm.com to schedule your free call. And in the meantime, I hope this powerful interview sparked some ideas you can use to sell more books. Until next week. Here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.
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